Who is Red John?

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List of seven

Thomas McAllister
Thomas McAllister
Reede Smith
Reede Smith
Ray Haffner
Ray Haffner
Gale Bertram
Gale Bertram
Brett Partridge
Brett Partridge
Bret Stiles
Bret Stiles
Bob Kirkland
Bob Kirkland

LATEST THEORIES

I know that there are many people who deeply wish that the list of 7 is another bait. Actually, till now we'd been cracking our brains to find out who RJ was, but apparently now people will have dual theories from now on with the list involved and otherwise. 

Personally I am one of those fellas who in fact does believe that the list of 7 can still be a deception somehow. After all, most of us are just posting theories about "how we want it to happen" rather than "how it's supposed to happen" which is pretty normal because those little geniuses inside us lead us that way.

Either way, I mean the list being involved or not, I still put my money on Jane's past and the last episode supports my way of thinking. Let's say the list involves the real RJ. Then I believe that one of those people in the list is actually not who he is but he's someone from PJ's past. A friend, his father, his brother, his hi-school teacher, whatever you'd like to think.

You may see my earlier theory: http://www.whoisredjohn.com/See-a-theory-Red-John/2419#disqus_thread

Sticking to that theory, I will go deeper into analysis:

Final episode leaves us many questions to be answered actually. Let's see them below and try to reply in all possible ways:

1- Lorelei's video recording:

a-) Has it been made by Jane to deceive Lisbon (and indirectly others) in an attempt to mislead RJ regarding what Jane knows or doesn't know? In that case, this means Jane has already figured out who RJ is but he's just going to find out the reason why RJ is so obsessed about him. Because there's absolutely much more than what has been said on that TV show about RJ because Jane's analysis about RJ on the show is way too cliche (he's a sociopath, a lonely soul, etc.) so that even if he were David Copperfield but not just a mentalist (or fake Psychic), it might piss RJ off but not necessarily make him obsessed about Jane as being a super-clever person who is worth to toy with just for high quality fun. So, I believe there's much more to that. RJ knows him way before he killed his wife and kid.

b-) Has it been made by RJ to humiliate Jane? This is another possibility and it means "Who the hell do you think has given you all those evidences or clues to come up with such a list? Even if you can figure out those 7 names, I can make it yesterday" kind of situation. However, there's an important clue on that video (if it was taken by RJ of course). He says something like "do you think this is clever? this is just luck!" Luck! This means that Jane has a hit in that list. Because as per RJ's statement (Luck), PJ has figured him out (at least with 1/7 ratio) and he is pissed off because he thinks that PJ hasn't earned it but taken some wild guesses. Pissing off thing can be understood from him revealing his future plans to kill even many more. No matter how sophisticated RJ is, he's still a psycho with high temper. Otherwise, he would have opened up a pizza shop named Red John's.

2-) Why did Jane let the woman go with the police car without further investigating her?

a-) It's a "Nah, not worth to waste my time because she won't say anything about RJ anyway" situation. This doesn't make sense at one point because he might have hypnotized her to let her sing like a nightingale but I'm not sure if she can be over-hypnotized if she were already hypnotized by RJ.

b-) It's a "Nah, I already know who RJ is and I don't need that chic to tell it to everyone and just blow up my plan" situation. 

Not being necessarily related with the episode, I still have some other question marks within the show. As the context gets spread like crazy, there are many more details to follow. That's how LOST has screwed it up. Many open-ended questions remained unsolved. If Bruno Heller intends to do the same thing, then it will be sad. If not, this means there will be many other points to be enlightened. I always look at the characters and events remain under some kind of cover or not sufficiently processed. For example:

1- Where the hell is Bret Stiles? Such an important character just sitting at home and watching TV all this time? No! He is being prepared for a key move in the next season because he is one of the top players in this game. How? I don't know yet but my earlier theory might give you some idea.

2- Why Partridge is being shown as a rather tamed and serious personality all of a sudden? Where's his childish behavior and excitement as displayed before? Is he behaving mature when his personnel is around to gain more respect? Or is he being presented to us in such a way that "Dude, I never thought that this guy would be RJ but now he looks more of it?" 

3- Where is Kristina Frye? Is she involved in a business investment like Kristina Fryed Chicken and no more interested in other things? She might be thinking that she's dead but wasn't she the one who believed that the dead can also contribute in many ways? We will see her again and just like Stiles, she will be the key to many things.

4- Why? Why the hell nobody from Jane's past (the carnival people expecially) do not ask for Jane's father's whereabouts or why not Jane raises such a question to those people? Asking doesn't hurt right? Do you think that the writers or producers just say "Well, everyone has a father and Jane does have one. So what? We covered that situation already, we made them apart, let him just live in peace wherever he is"? I don't think so... We will see his father and he will play a great role in RJ case in future season(s).

5- Jane's childhood memory. What was it? A memory planted by RJ or some other freak? Or was it real? Either ways, this leads us to the conclusion that RJ and PJ had been in interaction (a close one) way before we know.

So, what remains under the shadows will actually rise and shine, and show us the real picture. Even if RJ is one in that list, he is not originally that person but actually someone else in Jane's past but professionally disguised and seeking vengeance if he hadn't taken it enough by killing his family. Otherwise, I don't believe that an over-bored killer comes up and says "Oh man, there's no one to play in the playground. Well, that guy seems interesting... C'mon dude, let's play! But first let me kill your family so you can also feel like playing with major enthusiasm". There is more to this show my friends. There's a higher path... ;) 

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This isn't necessarily a single accusation, but more of an analysis of each character in the final list of 7 and how he is possibly Red John and how he is also not. At this point, I'm not fully confident in one suspect so I will rank based on what we know about them. I apologize in advanced if this is too long, but thought I had some pretty good points and observations to bring up. Some of them may be a stretch but still something to ponder about. 

Bret Stiles - He has helped Jane on two separate occasions: First time was when he told him the whereabouts of Kristina Frye and the second occasion when he orchestrated Lorelei's breakout. In season 2 when RJ meets PJ, he says something along the lines of "Kristina would want me to send you her love... she's very fond of you". RJ clearly knows that PJ cared about Kristina and was upset by her abduction. Later, Bret Stiles leads PJ to her, but it's too late for him; she is beyond his help. What if RJ knew getting PJ's hopes up but eventually crushing them would be a tantalizing way to mess with PJ's mind? Similarly with Lorelei, he knew Lorelei wasn't going to talk (except for letting slip about shaking hands, which he apparently was furious about), and deliberately let her get released? Not to mention Lorelei expected it would be him to break out her out and we know Bret Stiles is definitely one of the people capable of this feat.

On the flip side, there are a few hints that suggest he is not Red John. One fact is that Rosalind Harker describes RJ to have straight, short hair and Bret Stiles seems to be more of a balding type (granted, she may have felt the back of his head). In addition though, she felt his face and surely would've felt the wrinkles and deduce he was pretty old. Is it likely she fell intimate with someone that much older than her? This is more of conjecture than factual reasoning, but something to consider nonetheless. Also, his voice doesn't sound remotely close to RJ's voice in the season 2 finale (again, he may be good at changing voices). The last detail is that Stiles seems to have a "friendly" relation with Jane; they talk quite casually without much sign of hostility and he also voices his concerns about Jane being caught for his involvement in Lorelei's escape.

Gale Bertram - He was on the original list of 4 suspects back in season 3 along with O'Laughlin, Ardiles, and Shettrick. What if RJ figured out Jane's trap because he knew the 2 locations (Bertram's and O'Laughlin's) contradicted each other? Why else would he hire the assassin to go through the trouble of using a rope to traverse to a room when she could have simply walked into O'Laughlin's right away? Perhaps it was a subtle teaser to Jane as a sign of "you almost got me, but not quite" and throw Jane off the trail. Not to mention he used the word "rope" when he says "you reached the end of the rope" as opposed to'line' ("you reached the end of the line" is far more common). This seems to be one feasible way of staying ahead of Jane; he provides Jane an answer that makes him THINK he's onto RJ when in fact RJ's been manipulating and pulling the strings. Lets also not forget that he's seen collaborating with Bob Kirkland (who definitely has a strong connection to RJ) after he interrogates Lisbon about Lorelei. A more minor detail is that poker is seen extensively throughout the series. Bertram is an avid poker player and we also get a rare closeup of his hands (you have to use your hands to play poker!). He and Brett Partridge are the only two characters on this list where we get a somewhat zoomed-in view on their hands (part of Harker's description on RJ).

In terms of evidence that it's not him, he has a similar one to Bret Stiles; balding and not much hair, and also the voice (again, this is arguable obviously). He also receives help from Jane (poker) and doesn't seem too ashamed about it. He's also keen to keep Jane in prison (when he tells Ardiles to try and stop Jane from bailing) and we know for a fact Red John enjoys Patrick Jane chasing him and will in a way help Jane get back on trail (killing Bosco and his team back in season 2 for instance)

Reede Smith - This is probably the one person on the list that I cannot connect to Red John. If anyone has any theories on him being RJ, I would be intrigued to hear it. 

Ray Haffner - All the reasons that he is RJ have been stated repeatedly so I won't post them (Red Barn connection, link to Visualize, high ranking CBI position, etc).

Why I think it's not Haffner: RJ knows Jane and Lisbon are inseparable. Haffner doesn't seem to, he keeps trying to prod Lisbon to come with him over Jane. Haffner has also been played by Jane, something that hasn't really happened to RJ so far. Haffner is also a former football player (award in his office). Being a football player, you would think he would be quite built, but Rosalid describes RJ as "not muscular". He is also supposedly leaving CBI, and look at the other suspects that were "leaving" who's been eliminated (virgil Mineli to Hawaii and Walter Mashburn to Europe anyone?) There also doesn't seem too much personal animosity between these two. 

Bob Kirkland - He provides Lisbon with details about the case with Lorelei's sister, which was a dead giveaway in letting PJ try to get Lorelei to cooperate. Doesn't he know that leaking that information would risk Lorelei revealing to Jane who RJ is? Again, this goes back to my theory how RJ purposely gives information (misleading and not always quite enough) to trick Jane into thinking he's ahead. 

Here's why I don't think it's Bob: RJ predicted (or rather knew) PJ's 7 suspects far before Bob broke into Jane's room and did an analysis of his findings. It seems far more likely that Kirkland is an accomplice and he merely sent him as a way to confirm his suspicions. He always states along the lines of "you don't know me, but I know you". Wouldn't this indicate he's not Red John (of course, one could argue depending on his/her interpretation but I personally think this was meant in the way that Patrick does not him because he's not Red John or someone else he's met before).
 
Thomas McAllister - The only connection I have is that he's a Sheriff and we know that Red John's association Orville Tanner had a son who was a sheriff himself: Sheriff Hardy back from the season 1 finale. A couple people also hypothesized that he lost on purpose in rock-paper-scissors to give Jane a false sense of security. Apparently, Bruno Heller also stated that RJ will be a "where's Waldo" type and 1 appearance does fit this criteria (I do not have a citation for this, however, someone confirm please?)

Why not him? This sort of contradicts what I said just now but I feel like 1 appearance isn't really enough to constitute the final villain. We also know very few details about him and I think the purpose of the show is to try and utilize/connect as many details we know about the suspects and make a logical guess.

Brett Partridge - I have no additional insights to the ones already been stated constantly. There are quite a lot of theories that suggest it's him.

Why I think it's not him? Way too obvious, seems like a Red Herring, and since when has a really obvious suspect ended up being the culprit in any of the episodes (filler and no-filler). 

Again, I have no clear suspect but if I were to rank in terms of likeliness, it would be:
Unlikely: Reede Smith, Thomas McAllister
Possible: Bob Kirkland, Bret Stiles, Ray Haffner
Likely: Gale Bertram, Brett Partridge

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I do NOT think it is likely that PJ is RJ, BUT there have been 2 episodes where we have been able to hear RJ speak... And let's be real people - RJ's voice is sooo obviously PJ's (simon baker) voice.
Although, that is a minor and maybe even an insignificant thing to add, it all just leaves me a bit puzzled. But I bet that's the intention ? 

I still find the RJ murder symbol very interesting.. what exactly does the smiley face made up of blood convey ? What does that represent ? What is the story/meaning behind it ? What is the message ? I think this could be a massive tool to figure out who RJ is.

And is it just me, or does NONE of the 7 people on the list seem like they could be THE RED JOHN..?!? I would imagine Red John to be like a twisted/demented/disturbed version of PJ. Idk if any of those 7 seem to be only PJ's level... maybe Stiles of visualise, but he has a distinctive BRITISH voice..lol.
Maybe PJ has an evil twin or something haha. 

we know this:
RJ definitely has a position of power and lots and lots of connections
RJ definitely has this sort of sick / obsessive interest in PJ

Ughhh i cant wait to find out who red john is!!!!!!! :D


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Before narrowing down to a single name for Red John, let us agree on a few facts/ motifs of the show.
1. The obvious suspect is NEVER the culprit.
2. There are always red herrings.
3. Most episodes involve a complex sub-plot within the obvious, bigger plot.
4. The show, like any other show, is likely to use, and does, top notch actors (I.e. actors with serious creds from other shows on television) for key roles.

In the light of the above, let's look at what we know about Red John.

1. He is omnipresent. Even for an accomplished criminal, the extent of his crime is massive. He is seemingly everywhere.
2. He recites Tyger Tyger to Jane. 'What immortal hand or eye/ could frame thy fearful symmetry'.
3. Jane's list of 7 suspects matches his own.
4. There is a definite connection between Red John and Visualize.

All this points to the fact that Red John is not one person. Red John is a gang, a cult, comprising possibly all 7 people, headed by Bret Stiles. 'What immortal hand or eye/ could frame thy fearful symmetry' is an allusion to a tiger's many stripes- that an artist, were he to attempt painting, could never get right because there are so many.

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im not really honestly sure who to accuse. but im certain that it is not Patrick Jane. some theories may say that patrick could have multiple personality disorder that is completely has a different mind of patrick and maybe that is why he is always one step ahead, can read his memories and does not kill him. 

plausible yes. but i think it is still unlikely. because for one thing, jane always works in the cbi. spends most of his time with his colleagues and sleeps upstairs of the office. if he is able to switch personalities there, surely his colleagues would have realized a change in behavior knowing how concerned lisbon is. and how could the communication take place with all his powerful connections if patrick spends most of his time with his time near his team? okay lets say that red john personality can resurface anytime it wants to. i still believe it is impossible that no one in the cbi team or that no friend or even a lay man can spot jane having a change in behavior.

but okay  for example though, he is to pull off a 100% copy of patrick's behavior and conversed with his colleagues, as an actual psychology graduate myself, i know that upon switching personalities, the personalities do not have memory of the doings of each other's actions. so if red john personality interacts and acts 100% like patrick, and then the real patrick resurface after that, dont you think that his cbi agents would be worried as to why jane could not recall the stuff he did or the things he did? because im just basing it form a  real case of multiple personality disorder and how easily it is to distinguish one. just from day-to-day interaction with the person

and one thing bothers me, if jane is red john, how the hell did he get such high ranking recruits on his side even before jane started to enter cbi? i mean, as patrick jane himself who grew up tricking people in a circus, how could that red john personality obtain such powerful people? and in a season ender (the one where patrick fakes his change of life and lorelei introduced herself), Red john was trying to recruit patrick. if red john is a personality why the hell would he still do that if they have the same body anyway? he could just leave a neutral patrick jane in that state and not interfere with the red john personality's plans.but nooooo.  why the hell would he still want to recruit jane if he is already in that helpless , neutral drinking pattern mode. it should have been to his advantage because if someone drinks he goes semi - unconscious,  the alternate personality 'red john' can easily take over the body any time more easily.

i still can't put my mind as to how can jane go about switching personalities, going elsewhere and talking to people without being noticed of that change. and with any suspicion as to the loss of memory and TIME. and Jane is smart. IF HE IS SWITCHING PERSONALITIES, HE WOULD HAVE WONDERED WHERE DID HIS TIME GO.

 i mean,look guys lets talk logic, if the alternate personality takes over, it also takes a certain amount of time of the day. he takes atleast hours of jane's day to do all that killing and communication and going about to places. and by the time red john alter ego is done, he will switch back to Patrick Jane personality right?

okay, now as he goes back to being patrick jane personality dont you think that Jane will wonder where had time gone to?? and if he tries to recall what he did, he wont be able to recall that?
he is smart. dont you think he will doubt himself after a few episodes of his inability to remember what the hell he did within a period of hours? if you were in his shoes i think you even would wonder where your time has gone to.

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Upvote, downvote, whatever, this isn't a theory but nowhere else to put it. Anjin posting.

Apologize for the rant which follows:

 



The series is veering a bit too close to absurdity for me,
not only because the most logical (to me) suspects are now off the list of
possibilities, but because Red John now has mental acumen more advanced than anyone
could reasonably imagine. He’s become super-villain. Forget the fact that RJ
somehow picked a memory out of Jane’s head and “murdered” it, though that
certainly chafes reason (though it is, yes, an original twist, or at least I’ve
never seen it before).  I suppose this
could be explained somehow by Jane letting the memory slip during counseling,
hypnosis during his year-long sanitarium visit, or something similar.  At least there’s that possibility, albeit
remote, or maybe one or two other explanations which would not go off the wires
into mind-reading.  (And I’d argue the
ethos of the show, regardless of what Heller has stated, is very much
anti-quackery rather than on the metaphorical/ metaphysical fence.)


 



No, what really pisses me off is that Red John has made up
the list of Jane’s for him—that the list was exactly what Jane had in his mind.
How is this even supposed to be remotely possible? Lorelei was dead before
Kirkland stormed Jane’s office (and this is assuming Kirkland is RJ or is
feeding him information).  So then
logically the video file had to have been made prior to any knowledge of Jane’s
bulletin board contents (which of course we have to assume were at least
partially doctored by Jane as a ruse.)  


 



So where, then, does this leave us? Hidden cameras? Or Red
John just knows Jane so well he knows all the people on the planet that Jane
has remembered that he met in the last 10 or so years? And then, after divining
these names, RJ has the mental acuity to narrow that (gargantuan) list down to
seven names?  Come on. It strains
credulity that Jane can do it with his OWN memory, but that Red John can do it
over the airwaves, as is were, is bullshit. Unless Jane IS Red John, which we
know now definitively he is not. Unless Heller is purposefully deceiving us. But
that way madness lies.


 



If anyone has a reasoned explanation as to RJ’s ability here
that doesn’t touch on “powers” please reply and let me have it.

 

I won’t even mention the in-plot idiocy of letting the Red
John associate into a car without a bodyguard to keep her from, say, killing
herself with a pill. Defies sense. In fact that seemed like an afterthought
scene, as if it had been filmed later—you never saw Jane or Lisbon make mention
of her death at all. Yet she was, here, suddenly, someone who knew Red John!
Just like Rebecca, Jared, Lorelei. Why would Jane even let her out of his
sight??

 



Rant over. Now in terms of speculation.

 



The list has been put out there and there are already all
sorts of really good theories coming out of it. I would like to think that once
we all have the time to go back and watch all the episodes in which these
people have appeared (and any other episodes with references to these, by the
same writers, etc.) we will have a better mass of material to work with.

 

I’m going to start out with the premise that we have to take
Heller at his word on the list. (see: http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/05/06/mentalist-finale-season-6-red-john-list/)  Red John is one of those suspects. Red John
is not Jane.  The list is not a ruse.
There are no anagrams in the list. There is no one named Brett
Haffner-Stiles-Partridge who we haven’t seen yet but whose name is still there
just by chance.  No, at least one of
these guys is Red John.  Maybe more than
one.  Yes.  Maybe more than one. And I think we’ll know
who it is probably as soon as the first half of the next season, maybe in the
first few episodes. The rest will be some kind of pursuit when that character
falls off the grid.


 



The sheriff? He was in season one. Everyone, I expect, has
forgotten about him. He’s a good actor, loved him in the series 24. Have seen him as a character actor
in a lot of stuff I can’t recall. One of those faces. Reliable. Much like the
guy who played Timothy Carter whom I feel the same way about. But I doubt this
sheriff is Red John just because he’s so remote in my memory. Was he a dubious
character? Yes. He also got beaten by Jane in paper/rock/scissors repeatedly in
one of the best opening sequences of the series.  Doubt it’s him.


 



Reede Whatsit. FBI guy. Why him? He’s a dolt, an emotionally
reactive FBI suit, not particularly memorable. Don’t know why he’s even on the
list. Is there any evidence that it could possibly be him besides Jane saying
he’s on the list?  Remember when he and
Cho went at it? It’d be great if it were him just to see Cho knock him on the
hood of a car again.


 

That’s two suspects dismissed.

 



The only person on the list who is currently seriously
suspicious is Kirkland, who has murdered in cold blood and lied about it
(Lennon, in the hospital). He has expressed great interest in Jane and his
search for Red John, he was ret-conned conveniently into the series here in
season 5, as if he “had always been around.” He has contacts, is in a position
of power in his job as Homeland Security agent, has agents under him who do his
bidding seemingly without the need to report to anyone else (evidenced by their
shrugging off when he says he’ll “take care of it” once they supply him with
the photos of Jane’s office.) He fits the physical profile given by Harker. He
has a soft voice. He seems interested in approaching Lisbon at an angle to get
at Jane. He has physically shaken hands with Jane. He was very interested in
Lorelei Martins’ capture. He states (as was pointed out on this site) that he
“grew up in America” suggesting he moved a lot, suggesting a possible
connection to carnivals (though really this is unlikely).

 



But. He is hardly charming. He can barely hold a normal
conversation with Lisbon. He shook hands with Jane, as many people have
noticed, while Lorelei was in jail. He doesn’t seem to have any connection with
Visualize (though he may, later.) Is this just poor continuity/scripting? Or is
this some kind of clue? If Kirkland is Red John no one should be surprised, but
in the same way no one should be surprised if it turns out Lisbon is in love
with Jane. It’s so obvious it’s too obvious. Surely we can expect a bit more
subtlety regarding the central mystery of the series? If it’s Kirkland, let’s
just know already and make chase.

 



Kirkland is also in league with Bertram. So there’s a
Bertram/Kirkland connection.

 

Haffner: He’s Visualize. He fits the profile of Harker. He
is a cop who tried to infiltrate the CBI but failed. I’ve mentioned my
disagreement with the possibility that he’s Red John in other places, but he
has admitted to being a Visualize member, which puts him and Stiles in the same
boat. While Haffner may not know everything about Stiles, Stiles definitely knows
everything about Haffner.

 

Red John has a Visualize connection. Meaning Stiles is
involved at least peripherally. If the series went into season 7 or 8, I could
see pursuit of Visualize as a further plot device. I wonder how that would sit
in LA, heartland of Scientology.

 



That leaves Partridge. But all the reasons against Partridge are seeming feeble--basically we need to know more about the guy.

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You are guessing but i think Red John does not exist yet. Watching the story, i assume that easily can be created a person who fit to the story. Remember, it is a serie, the most important thing to keep the eyes on the screen. I can't get off my mind the story of Lost.

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