Didn't anybody else notice something very strange at the beginning of chapter 5x22?
Jane asked to Lisbon "What happened to your wrist?" and she answered "Ah, is nothing. I tripped."
Why would they make a space on the chapter about something so "irrelevant", unless it is relevant? I'm starting to suspect about Lisbon... not as red John, but as one of his associates.
Just to be clear this is not a theory, just something I've been thinking about for a while now.
I still don't understand how Red John got the knowledge of Patrick's
exact same 7 suspects, and even weirder, how did he know who the
suspects were before Patrick? This tape with Lorelei when she is
speaking for Red John was shortly before she was killed, the bandage
from the gunshot wound on her left arm proves it. Which means the tape
was recorded just after Lorelei told Jane she was going after Red John
to kill him, and this was in episode 16. Jane narrowed down the list in
the season finale, 6 episodes later. Which brings me back to my
question: How did Red John know about the list and the 7 names? It's
like he can get in to his head and see what Jane is thinking because I don't really
see any other connections here. I also don't understand HOW Patrick
really narrowed down the list to these 7 individuals specificly, in what
way? The Elliston farm? Members from Visualize, how? Visualize
absolutely refused CBI to look at any membership from 1988 or any year
before or after. I don't see any connections to this at all.
Please note, that I don't think it's Jane, and posting it on Jane's theory on purpose, to prove all of you wrong.
Reasons why Jane isn't Red John:
I will start with easy ones that prove almost nothing
1) He shook Red Johns hand. Since he can't shake his own hand - it's not him. Anyone would respond - Jane might have a split personality, and RJ made Lorelei tell Jane that it's someone he shook hands with to throw him off the trail, or start another sick game of hide and seek. Possible... Unlikely but possible.
2) Kirkland steals Jane's notes. He might be Red John, might be one of his pawns or a secret investigator. If we assume he is either Red John or his pawn (Because the last one is very unlikely) then comes up the question, if Red John is Jane, why would he need his notes? Doesn't he posses all the memories Jane has?
In case you tell that he doesn't share Jane's memories, you will then cancel out your hardest evidence - The fact that Red John allegedly read Jane's memories to kill his happiest one.
3) We know that what drove Jane into the Red John investigation are the death of his mother and daughter. To assume he is Red John is to assume his other personality killed his family to start the chase. You may say that it's exactly what happened, but as far as we know, Jane was mentally stable before the murder.
4) (Connected to 3) Jane's family was killed while he was doing his act of TV. To assume Jane is Red John is to assume he hired someone to kill his family, or he was at two places at once.
5) And the hardest evidence to prove Jane's innocence: His happy memory (Aylin - not sure how it's spelled) was murdered overnight, or afternoon the previous day (Inferred from when the maid found her) Since we are shown footage of Jane sleeping in the office during all previous day and through all the night, he could not have possibly killed her.
So here you go - 5 reasons why Jane isn't Red John.
Note, I didn't name all the reasons. Follow the same logic, and you will find more proof.
- RJ made Lorelei read out a large list of possible suspects when he knew about her telling PJ about the handshake thing.
- Then after breaking into PJ room he could see how was PJ thinking and he his likely to suspect 7 people (He didn't find names, only hints/clues that point to 7 people)
- So according to the data he gathered, he made a list of his own 7 names that PJ likely to suspect, including his own name and edited the video to match the list.
- When PJ first watched the video without Lisbon, he found that some the suspects Lorelei read out were wrong, so we now have 2 lists (one by RJ, one by PJ).
- The true suspects are the mutual ones in both lists, and PJ is keeping that for himself. Before letting Lisbon watch the video, he faked that the list made by RJ is identical to his list, in order to let RJ think he's one step ahead when he actually "two steps behind", just like he faked his breakdown in season 4.
- Also, RJ and PJ knew each other long before PJ's family was murdered that's why he knew about his memories. But why PJ can't recognize him then ? simply because he had a surgery to change his face, that's why he asked (then killed) Jason Lennon.
- Remember "he is mar" ? (mar = injury, defect, etc). Jared Renfrew did know about RJ's injury, but this information was outdated because it happened during the murder of Carter Peak and he could have had the surgery anytime later on. (Probably long before the murder of PJ's family).
I know such scenario could be far fetched, I just wanted to share my thoughts.
Okay, some more (rant-like) thoughts from me.
I assume the following points as facts about this show:
1. Bruno Heller is not trying to manipulate us in his latest interview. Red John is one of the seven suspects on the list. Red John is not Patrick Jane.
2. The show follows a linear structure, not counting flashback and such. The events in Episode 5x16 happen later in time than the events in Episode 5x15; the events in 5x15 are after the events in 5x14 and so on.
3. There are no supernatural powers involved - mind reading and stuff like that.
4. There are no plastic surgeries, secret twins, Mission Impossible masks and various other "clever" tricks. Meaning that, for example, Lorelei is dead and the video with the list was shot before Kirkland's men broke into Patrick's room.
This leaves us with two possible answers to the question "How did RJ get the real list of suspects by the time of Episode 5x16?".
1. Red John stole the list (or some really detailed notes) from Patrick. Which means that Patrick was ready with the list by 5x16 (the episode Lorelei died). It leaves us with the question: What was Patrick doing in Episodes 5x17 to 5x22? We were shown that he was doing some hard work; sleepless nights etc. So, was he planning his next moves, setting traps for the seven suspects? Possible. I hope we'll see this in the first episodes of Season 6.
And then another question. What was the meaning of the toothpick scene and Patrick's smile? Because it seems like Patrick made a real list and then waited a couple of episodes (risking the list being stolen in the meantime) before he set his presumable fake list trap. Which is a really stupid plan even for an average Joe, let alone for a mind like Patrick. It makes no sense. Did he really make a fake list at all? And if he did, was he trying to trap Red John or someone else?
2. Red John made the list independently from Patrick. Red John narrowed a list of possibly hundreds of names down to the exact seven names. Based on what? The information about the handshakes?
I find this hard to believe. Even if Red John is a genius.
Yes, he probably knows about a lot of people Patrick shook hands with. But all of them? Really?
He is very smart, he has an incredible mind. He thinks like Patrick. Hell, he probably is smarter than Patrick. Okay, I am smarter than a lot of people, but I cannot possibly pull a trick like this.
A lot of people here say that Red John did nothing really special. He just put the most suspicious people on the list, knowing that Patrick would connect the dots and do the same. The most suspicious people = the people, who are in some way connected to Red John and/or his killings. Yes, but there are other people connected/involved and they are not on the list. Where is Ellis Mars for example? Where is this guy Sean Barlow, who seems to have followed PJ/RJ cat-and-mouse games suspiciuosly closely? Minelli? All the women so easily excluded?
Or what? Red John put his associates on the list? Red John knew that Patrick would connect these seven guys to one or more of his murders and that's why he put them on the list. Really? Red John made a list of himself and six of his associates? Come on now...
And by the way - if Patrick was able to determine RJ's associates so precisely, why didn't he do it earlier? What changed? Lorelei's handshake/friends info was so crucial? Rosalind's description did nothing, the "He is ma/mar/man" did nothing, the Visualize link did nothing, but Lorelei's info changed everything?
3. Yes, there is three. It comprises all other theories: RJ hypnotized Patrick. RJ did not make the Lorelei video, Patrick did. The video was edited after Lorelei's death. Stuff like that.
That's it for now. ;)
Everyone is Red John!
Red John died and now only his "order" left. He lives as an ideology in the hearts of many people. People from list of seven are his disiples, they make decisions and spread RJ words.
ive read many theories and many of you have overlapping thoughts about who RJ is, i dont want to use this post by saying who i think it is i want to respond to a theory some of posted
some think that maybe RJ is someone from PJ past who has a grudge against him, his father, maybe his brother of even the new introduced Sean Barlow.
So you say the real underlaying reason of the tormenting agains PJ is his connection with PJ in past, but why does Red John appear after the slandering of PJ? Red John only killed his Wife and Daughter after PJ said those things about RJ on TV.
RJ has killed many people before PJ said those things about RJ on TV so the theory about RJ is connected to PJ's past just doesnt make any sence. If RJ really is someone from the past that has a grudge against PJ, why wouldnt he attacked PJ earlier?