Who is Red John?

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Ray Haffner

Ray Haffner
Suspected in 875 theories

THE THEORIES

This is not a theory, but I'm trying hard to ascertain if some things are true. If anyone has any insights into these questions, please comment, cos I think the right answers will solve the who is RJ puzzle.

1) Is the Tyger Tyger 'organization' independent of Red John, or is this something RJ started up and controls? It definitely has something to do with RJ cos RJ quotes those words to Jane in the episode where he saves Jane. But, on the other hand, I read somewhere that Heller mentioned that there was a corrupt ring of law enforcement officers thats going to be something the show will revolve around once the RJ thing is done. I can't remember where I read this, so I could be wrong.

2) Heller said that there was a clue in last sequence of episode 1, where Partridge dies, and Lisbon gets the smiley face. I'm wondering if this clue is the fact that Lisbon does NOT get killed, or the smiley on her face being different from other RJ smileys, or something to do with Partridge, or the pigeons, or the writing on the wall.

3) It really bugs me that Kirkland kills Lennon after just asking the latter if he recognises him, without asking for ANY info on RJ. If Lennon is a confirmed accomplice of RJ's, and Kirkland KNEW this, it is beyond obvious to get more info from him. 

4) I have a very strong feeling that the person who is known by Rosalind Harker, who met Sophie Miller, and who saved Jane from the fake RedJohns is one and the same person, and is THE Red John. This individual was a powerful personality. It cannot be anyone but RJ.

5) Why does Jason Cooper appear in the episode Fire and Brimstone? It makes sense for him to be in Red Tattoo, but why is he in the next episode as well?

6) Who is the woman in the Red Tattoo (see the promo for the episode) who is getting attacked, and whom I think Jane tries to save, only he is too late? He turns around and tells Lisbon "Its Red John". Along the same lines, Haffner, in the same promo, WARNS Jane that the latter is going to get his comeuppance soon, and we see this mysterious woman getting attacked right after. Does this mean that Haffner knew something was going to happen? And Jane was desperate to get to the woman to save her, telling me she's really important to him somehow. Anyone have any ideas who she might be?

7) Does anyone else have a really bad feeling that something bad is about to happen to Rigsby/Van Pelt? I think one of them is going to get targeted by RJ, cos we've been told that they both leave the show, and it has something to do with RJ.

8) As for my main suspect, IF the list of 7 is true, and real, and RJ really is one of them, then I'll have to pick Haffner. He seems an obvious choice, but to me it would be a disappointment if it were him, cos he is NO WHERE near as charismatic as Jane, and definitely not someone to inspire undying loyalty in highly intelligent individuals.


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I'm sorry, but Partridge is dead.  All of the people out there thinking he is still alive is just flat out wrong.  He was a part of the Tyger-Tyger Organization and got killed by Red John (my guess is because Red John thought that he couldn't handle being questioned by Jane).  Kirkland's twin brother is interesting, but I'm not sure if his twin brother really killed Lennon, I just think it was Kirkland's rage.  In that scene, he asks Lennon if he recognized him, I don't think Michael Kirkland would do that.  He wouldn't have a reason to.  

Also, I think that Red John is a part of the Tyger-Tyger group.  I don't really have an basis for this, but it's just a hunch.  When Kirkland talked to Reede Smith about the organization, it was clear that Kirkland only wanted Red John, and that organization could give him a lead to Red John.  The only real reason that Reede Smith would have to kill Kirkland is so Jane couldn't talk to him about information regarding Red John.  Therefore, Red John is a part of this organization and had Kirkland killed (Also when Red John saved Jane from being murdered, he said tiger-tyger to him).  However, I don't believe that Red John is a group of people, it's got to be one person.  

Now on to the five remaining suspects: Smith, the sheriff, Bertram, Haffner, and Stiles.  Stiles hasn't really been in this season as of yet, so I will ignore him for now.  As for Smith, if he is Red John the show will suck.  He doesn't match the description of Red John at all and isn't methodical enough.  As for the sheriff, and Bertram.  They are clearly a part of the Tyger-Tyger organization.  However, I don't think any of these people are Red John.  In the scene from this season where Jane walks in on them talking to each other and then leaves, Reede Smith tells Bertram that it is his responsibility to find out how much Jane knows about Red John.  Red John wouldn't be spoken down to like this, so Bertram isn't Red John.  I also find it hard to believe that the sheriff would allow Reede (the hitman of the group) to give the orders to Bertram if he was Red John, so the sheriff isn't isn't Red John.  

That leaves Haffner and Stiles.  To me Haffner has been the front-runner from the very beginning.  He is the perfect Red John.  His age, his demeanor, and the way he has a "thing" for Lisbon.  It's also hard for me to believe that Stiles (the head of Visualize) is Red John.  I believe he is very similar to Red John, in his characteristics, but he is too obvious and too old.  In my opinion, I think Stiles is Haffner's dad/uncle, and that's why Stiles won't give any information on Red John, but clearly knows him pretty well.  It would easily explain Haffner's involvement in Visualize as well.  

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Bob killed Lennon ,but Lennon knew who Red John is ... Before killing him ,he asked does he recognize his face... he said no.... so no Bob nor his brother are Red John...

Also , i don't think red john ,if he is a person ,is someone out of list... that would be disappointing for viewers ...

 For me there is only 2 suspects Roy and Chief ...
Chief for because he scared of bird on the roof...
And Roy because he like teresa and his walking ...

That scene when teresa is in hospital and nurse came in by error looking someone else, is very suspicious to me...

I think there was another similar moment when someone enter in the interrogation room by error ...
There is something in that scenes....

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I wrote this as a further development of what has been explained in #6549 and #6687. The main fact of this open field of theories (not all mine) is that the Tyger tyger organisation and RJ are not linked or the same.

The Tyger club is clearly linked to William's Blake poem.

Everything we thought Red John was referring to in that peom about his relationship with Jane, now appplies to the Tyger club. The symmetry stuff, is like the two "faces" of the law. This meaning a "clean" organisation that work as outlaws, a sort of vigilante web, OR an organisation that commits crimes to "justify" or to ensure there's a reason to have a CBI. Like a pyromaniac fireman.  Have it be a regular maffia would be just lame, so I'd go with one of those two.

It is a possibility that the Tyger club is against Red John, this would be why Red John would give that clue, that warn, to Patrick. Or maybe RJ needs the tygers down to do something. Or he just tries to distract Jane with another huge net of illegal business that isn't his.

Asuming that Betram, McAlister and Smith are in the Tyger club and by the reasons given in previous posts the ones in the club can't be RJ, I think Haffner is a pretty obvious choice. But we have to go beyond. We have to think not only who the most logic suspect is withing the show, but also, why, as a writer, would you have it be him. Reasons outside the story.

RJ is a smart character. You would want a smart character not to commit suicide just for fun. If RJ has given Jane so many clues about himself with no reason, he'd be plain stupid. But if RJ, the smart RJ is willing to give up his identity it must be because the next move after he is found has already been planned. If I was RJ, the only reason i'd give up my name to you, who want to kill me, would be because there's something greater at stake. Same reason why I would have sent you so many messages to be friends in the past.

Clearly, the Tyger club being discovered by Jane is as or more important to RJ that his personal cat mouse game with Jane. Maybe without knowing, after being killed, or after he's discovered, Jane will fulfill RJs "pure" goal which is to combat corruption within C.L.E. Let's remember he has gained so many adepts so the guy must look and sound like a good, transparent, good-intentioned person. Maybe that's the symmetry of William Blake.

So the writers say Haffner. Obvious. The viewers say obvious =  boring. Oh but no.

 Maybe RJ being Haffner is a basal point to further developments in the series. Perhaps (not perhaps, clearly) to discover Roys real name isn't Jane's merit, but RJ's last or greatest move. Ray John (from now on..) can easily have better arguments than the other suspects to f*ck Jane's upcoming life.

Why? Lisbon
. Plain and simple. If you were a writer, would you loose the possibility, no matter how obvious it is, to have a triangle between the killer, the inocent girl and the smart guy?

So many chances, for instance:

Ray forces Jane to "use" Lisbon somehow, as a beacon, as a hostage, as a messenger or whatever. RJ sets a scruple test for Jane. His major goal (killing RJ) for his major chance of redemption in life (Teresa). Would Jane cross the line? I think he will, and John will be killed, but Lisbon will be definetely separated from Patrick. Therefore the Blue Heaven. You can't have the pie and the cake at the same time.

Maybe Ray finally seduces Lisbon (I don't think this one's probable, but it's another possible way to go), so not only jane's past, but also his future would have the RJ stamp.Maybe he even kills her or threatens to.

Or whatever else you can imagine as an interaction between John, Jane, and Lisbon as a trading coin or object, may definetely change the game and the relation between Patrick and Teresa from a human POV. It's not just kill her, there are other layers to be exploited.
And there would be a strong moral Dilemma for Patrick.

That's why it's important that Red John and Lisbon share an independent link, not Jane mediated. And the only character that currently has it would be Ray Haffner. If bad handled, it's a mexican soap opera. Well handled, I think it's the most interesting path to go if I was the writer of the show.

Keep a continuity element after red john is gone (the tyger club) and change the relationship between Jane and Lisbon BECAUSE of Red John, not just "red john is dead, let's be a couple". More like "you used me, you were willing to let me die" sort of think. In the end Jane is a sociopath just as red john. Or perhaps he doesn't dare crossing the line and RJ wins.

Again, so many possible emotional and character developments and gamechangers with Haffner being red John, obviousness and surprise are not the only important things and factors in TV to design a show. We are caring so much about who red john is, and not about what he will do with this de facto couple, that is Jisbon. And I bet he will wanna do a mess, and the better positioned to do that is RH.

Lost, in the end was 100% surprise, and no interesting development of the characters. Surprise is overrated and I really hope the Mentalist doesn't fall in that burse 

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In the beginning there were seven. Brett Partridge, Bret Stiles, Bob Kirkland, Reede Smith, Gale Bertram, Thomas McAllister and Ray Haffner.  In the first four episodes Brett Partridge and Bob Kirkland have been killed and eliminated. Leaving us with five suspects. 
In my opinion there is only man can be Red John and that is Raymond Haffner. I will explain why:
   First lets talk about the other four remaining suspects. 
Gale Bertram, Tom McAllister and Reede Smith are obviously members of this "Tyger, Tyger organization". Reede Smith as we saw is pretty much the "Hitman" of the group. Gale Bertram started and is the leader of the group. Tom McCallister is Bertram's right hand man and is used to keep an eye on Jane. Brett Partridge was the crime scene stager and clean up guy. I also believe that CBI Ron is part of this group. None of these men are Red John.     Bret Stiles isnt Red John either. He met Haffner when he was a troubled teen and took him in. Because of Bret Stiles Ray Haffner joined "Visualize" where he learned all of his techniques and skills. Brett Stiles was accused of killing Timothy Farragut during the early years of "Visualize". I believe Haffner has evidence proving Stiles committed the murder but came to an agreement with Stiles. Thats why Stiles wont reveal Red John's identity and protects him. 
 Before joining the CBI Ray Haffner was an FBI agent in the Organized Crime Division and is an expert in  . With those tools at his disposal Haffner likely found out about the secret "Tyger, Tyger" Organization. He then in Season 2 finale as Red John saves Patrick and recited that famous poem. " “Tyger, tyger, burning bright, in the forests of the night, What immortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry?”  It was simply a friendly warning to Jane to watch his back. He also says "RollTide". Hmmm...It just so happens that ray Haffner is a former football player.      Ray Haffner shows up in season 4 as the new supervising agent at CBI and Jane's boss. What better way to keep an eye on your biggest adversary and see exactly what you are up against. They even shook hands on screen.  People say Patrick played and outsmarted him when it was Haffner who was playing Patrick all along. Remember Haffner asking Cho if Patrick was smarter then him. Odd right?       Haffner leaves the CBI and starts his own private security agency.That along with his wiretaps and creative surveillance techniques is how he was able to figure out Jane's list of seven suspects. Haffner was also the person closest to the house where Partridge was killed and Lisbon Kidnapped. Instead of killing Lisbon Haffner draws a different smiley on Lisbon's face and even brushes her lips. Remember Haffner either has a thing for Lisbon or is in love with her.       Lastly Red John is a narcissist and master manipulator. Haffner always dresses nice and cares about his appearance. No other character was shown working out. Coincidence? Then we have the nurse coming into Lisbon's room looking for Camen Lee. Haffner was the only suspect to visit Lisbon in the hospital. I think he sent the nurse in first to see if Patrick was with her so that he could avoid Patrick, see Lisbon and Make sure Lisbon didnt know his true identity as RED JOHN.

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Brett Partridge was part of the group, that was connected ot RJ.
thats why he said "lorelei's death doesn't count, it was an inside job", because he was involved.
in episode 1, jane said to partride "you really dont know why im looking at you  like this?", next scene
partride was dead, and bruno heller said that partridge's death was important in episode 1, and a prove
was the fact that partride said the password of the group "tyger tyger".

so why did they kill him? partride felt that jane is closing on him, the group felt that he's going to crack
and tell everything to jane and lisbon, so RJ killed him before he could snitch.

its haffner or mcallister, imo haffner.

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We started out with seven names on the list, of which we are sure one of them is Red John. Since Brett Partridge and Robert Kirkland are killed off, we are down to five names on the list. These names include Bret Stiles, Gale Bertram, Ray Haffner, Reede Smith and Thomas McAllister.

The Tyger Tyger Conspiracy is a government conspiracy consisting of high-ranking and low-ranking members of the various law enforcement institutions. I am sure Reede Smith is not Red John, since he is quite frankly not in the right shape to be able to commit such crimes. Plus, he is the one who killed off Kirkland himself, which doesn't seem a plausible option for the real Red John for me. Red John should be a up to this far hidden character on the list. Smith would now be too obvious, so I will rule him out as of now.

The next person on the list I am going to rule out is Gale Bertram. As the director of the CBI and, so far as I believe, a high-ranking member of the Tyger Tyger Conspiracy, Bertram is an important pawn in the games of Red John. Not Red John himself, for he has been too much in the spotlight in previous episodes and too directly related to Reede Smith as seen in the second episode of season 6. This reasoning also rules out Thomas McAllister, who has already been ruled out in the third episode of the season because of his hatred for pigeons. Also, he climbed the ladder at the chapel with ease, so the 'afraid of heights'-theory falls apart on him as well.

Two persons are left now: Bret Stiles and Ray Haffner. Whereas the other suspects were ruled out by a thin string of logic, this one is purely intuition. But come on, Bret Stiles as Red John? Really? No... I doubt it that any viewer so far has wanted to see Stiles as Red John. Powerful, yes. But too fatherly and warm to truly be Red John. Plus, he is also not in shape to have committed all of the murders Red John has committed. He is simply too old.

I believe Ray Haffner is Red John. Intuition also tells me Bret Stiles is his father, which would give the reason for as to why Stiles knows so much about Red John. But I have no proof for this statement to be build upon, so you can let this float.

Because of this, I believe Ray Haffner is Red John.

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