I could be wrong, but in the message from Red John he never said that he actually IS one of the 7 suspects. RJ only revealed that he knew the names on PJ's list. RJ could still be somebody outside the list.
I could be wrong, but in the message from Red John he never said that he actually IS one of the 7 suspects. RJ only revealed that he knew the names on PJ's list. RJ could still be somebody outside the list.
Bret Stiles, is the father of two brothers guess who they are.
Just a quick observation: when PJ is captured and tied to a chair he falls over but is lifted up (quite easily) by RJ. This seems to exclude both women and someone like Bret Stiles as it requires a considerably amount of strenght.
I know it happened a long time ago, but still...
I know that there are many people who deeply wish that the list of 7 is another bait. Actually, till now we'd been cracking our brains to find out who RJ was, but apparently now people will have dual theories from now on with the list involved and otherwise.
Personally I am one of those fellas who in fact does believe that the list of 7 can still be a deception somehow. After all, most of us are just posting theories about "how we want it to happen" rather than "how it's supposed to happen" which is pretty normal because those little geniuses inside us lead us that way.
Either way, I mean the list being involved or not, I still put my money on Jane's past and the last episode supports my way of thinking. Let's say the list involves the real RJ. Then I believe that one of those people in the list is actually not who he is but he's someone from PJ's past. A friend, his father, his brother, his hi-school teacher, whatever you'd like to think.
You may see my earlier theory: http://www.whoisredjohn.com/See-a-theory-Red-John/2419#disqus_thread
Sticking to that theory, I will go deeper into analysis:
Final episode leaves us many questions to be answered actually. Let's see them below and try to reply in all possible ways:
1- Lorelei's video recording:
a-) Has it been made by Jane to deceive Lisbon (and indirectly others) in an attempt to mislead RJ regarding what Jane knows or doesn't know? In that case, this means Jane has already figured out who RJ is but he's just going to find out the reason why RJ is so obsessed about him. Because there's absolutely much more than what has been said on that TV show about RJ because Jane's analysis about RJ on the show is way too cliche (he's a sociopath, a lonely soul, etc.) so that even if he were David Copperfield but not just a mentalist (or fake Psychic), it might piss RJ off but not necessarily make him obsessed about Jane as being a super-clever person who is worth to toy with just for high quality fun. So, I believe there's much more to that. RJ knows him way before he killed his wife and kid.
b-) Has it been made by RJ to humiliate Jane? This is another possibility and it means "Who the hell do you think has given you all those evidences or clues to come up with such a list? Even if you can figure out those 7 names, I can make it yesterday" kind of situation. However, there's an important clue on that video (if it was taken by RJ of course). He says something like "do you think this is clever? this is just luck!" Luck! This means that Jane has a hit in that list. Because as per RJ's statement (Luck), PJ has figured him out (at least with 1/7 ratio) and he is pissed off because he thinks that PJ hasn't earned it but taken some wild guesses. Pissing off thing can be understood from him revealing his future plans to kill even many more. No matter how sophisticated RJ is, he's still a psycho with high temper. Otherwise, he would have opened up a pizza shop named Red John's.
2-) Why did Jane let the woman go with the police car without further investigating her?
a-) It's a "Nah, not worth to waste my time because she won't say anything about RJ anyway" situation. This doesn't make sense at one point because he might have hypnotized her to let her sing like a nightingale but I'm not sure if she can be over-hypnotized if she were already hypnotized by RJ.
b-) It's a "Nah, I already know who RJ is and I don't need that chic to tell it to everyone and just blow up my plan" situation.
Not being necessarily related with the episode, I still have some other question marks within the show. As the context gets spread like crazy, there are many more details to follow. That's how LOST has screwed it up. Many open-ended questions remained unsolved. If Bruno Heller intends to do the same thing, then it will be sad. If not, this means there will be many other points to be enlightened. I always look at the characters and events remain under some kind of cover or not sufficiently processed. For example:
1- Where the hell is Bret Stiles? Such an important character just sitting at home and watching TV all this time? No! He is being prepared for a key move in the next season because he is one of the top players in this game. How? I don't know yet but my earlier theory might give you some idea.
2- Why Partridge is being shown as a rather tamed and serious personality all of a sudden? Where's his childish behavior and excitement as displayed before? Is he behaving mature when his personnel is around to gain more respect? Or is he being presented to us in such a way that "Dude, I never thought that this guy would be RJ but now he looks more of it?"
3- Where is Kristina Frye? Is she involved in a business investment like Kristina Fryed Chicken and no more interested in other things? She might be thinking that she's dead but wasn't she the one who believed that the dead can also contribute in many ways? We will see her again and just like Stiles, she will be the key to many things.
4- Why? Why the hell nobody from Jane's past (the carnival people expecially) do not ask for Jane's father's whereabouts or why not Jane raises such a question to those people? Asking doesn't hurt right? Do you think that the writers or producers just say "Well, everyone has a father and Jane does have one. So what? We covered that situation already, we made them apart, let him just live in peace wherever he is"? I don't think so... We will see his father and he will play a great role in RJ case in future season(s).
5- Jane's childhood memory. What was it? A memory planted by RJ or some other freak? Or was it real? Either ways, this leads us to the conclusion that RJ and PJ had been in interaction (a close one) way before we know.
So, what remains under the shadows will actually rise and shine, and show us the real picture. Even if RJ is one in that list, he is not originally that person but actually someone else in Jane's past but professionally disguised and seeking vengeance if he hadn't taken it enough by killing his family. Otherwise, I don't believe that an over-bored killer comes up and says "Oh man, there's no one to play in the playground. Well, that guy seems interesting... C'mon dude, let's play! But first let me kill your family so you can also feel like playing with major enthusiasm". There is more to this show my friends. There's a higher path... ;)
I do NOT think it is likely that PJ is RJ, BUT there have been 2 episodes where we have been able to hear RJ speak... And let's be real people - RJ's voice is sooo obviously PJ's (simon baker) voice.
Although, that is a minor and maybe even an insignificant thing to add, it all just leaves me a bit puzzled. But I bet that's the intention ?
I still find the RJ murder symbol very interesting.. what exactly does the smiley face made up of blood convey ? What does that represent ? What is the story/meaning behind it ? What is the message ? I think this could be a massive tool to figure out who RJ is.
And is it just me, or does NONE of the 7 people on the list seem like they could be THE RED JOHN..?!? I would imagine Red John to be like a twisted/demented/disturbed version of PJ. Idk if any of those 7 seem to be only PJ's level... maybe Stiles of visualise, but he has a distinctive BRITISH voice..lol.
Maybe PJ has an evil twin or something haha.
we know this:
RJ definitely has a position of power and lots and lots of connections
RJ definitely has this sort of sick / obsessive interest in PJ
Ughhh i cant wait to find out who red john is!!!!!!! :D
Before narrowing down to a single name for Red John, let us agree on a few facts/ motifs of the show.
1. The obvious suspect is NEVER the culprit.
2. There are always red herrings.
3. Most episodes involve a complex sub-plot within the obvious, bigger plot.
4. The show, like any other show, is likely to use, and does, top notch actors (I.e. actors with serious creds from other shows on television) for key roles.
In the light of the above, let's look at what we know about Red John.
1. He is omnipresent. Even for an accomplished criminal, the extent of his crime is massive. He is seemingly everywhere.
2. He recites Tyger Tyger to Jane. 'What immortal hand or eye/ could frame thy fearful symmetry'.
3. Jane's list of 7 suspects matches his own.
4. There is a definite connection between Red John and Visualize.
All this points to the fact that Red John is not one person. Red John is a gang, a cult, comprising possibly all 7 people, headed by Bret Stiles. 'What immortal hand or eye/ could frame thy fearful symmetry' is an allusion to a tiger's many stripes- that an artist, were he to attempt painting, could never get right because there are so many.
Upvote, downvote, whatever, this isn't a theory but nowhere else to put it. Anjin posting.
Apologize for the rant which follows:
The series is veering a bit too close to absurdity for me,
not only because the most logical (to me) suspects are now off the list of
possibilities, but because Red John now has mental acumen more advanced than anyone
could reasonably imagine. He’s become super-villain. Forget the fact that RJ
somehow picked a memory out of Jane’s head and “murdered” it, though that
certainly chafes reason (though it is, yes, an original twist, or at least I’ve
never seen it before). I suppose this
could be explained somehow by Jane letting the memory slip during counseling,
hypnosis during his year-long sanitarium visit, or something similar. At least there’s that possibility, albeit
remote, or maybe one or two other explanations which would not go off the wires
into mind-reading. (And I’d argue the
ethos of the show, regardless of what Heller has stated, is very much
anti-quackery rather than on the metaphorical/ metaphysical fence.)
No, what really pisses me off is that Red John has made up
the list of Jane’s for him—that the list was exactly what Jane had in his mind.
How is this even supposed to be remotely possible? Lorelei was dead before
Kirkland stormed Jane’s office (and this is assuming Kirkland is RJ or is
feeding him information). So then
logically the video file had to have been made prior to any knowledge of Jane’s
bulletin board contents (which of course we have to assume were at least
partially doctored by Jane as a ruse.)
So where, then, does this leave us? Hidden cameras? Or Red
John just knows Jane so well he knows all the people on the planet that Jane
has remembered that he met in the last 10 or so years? And then, after divining
these names, RJ has the mental acuity to narrow that (gargantuan) list down to
seven names? Come on. It strains
credulity that Jane can do it with his OWN memory, but that Red John can do it
over the airwaves, as is were, is bullshit. Unless Jane IS Red John, which we
know now definitively he is not. Unless Heller is purposefully deceiving us. But
that way madness lies.
If anyone has a reasoned explanation as to RJ’s ability here
that doesn’t touch on “powers” please reply and let me have it.
I won’t even mention the in-plot idiocy of letting the Red
John associate into a car without a bodyguard to keep her from, say, killing
herself with a pill. Defies sense. In fact that seemed like an afterthought
scene, as if it had been filmed later—you never saw Jane or Lisbon make mention
of her death at all. Yet she was, here, suddenly, someone who knew Red John!
Just like Rebecca, Jared, Lorelei. Why would Jane even let her out of his
sight??
Rant over. Now in terms of speculation.
The list has been put out there and there are already all
sorts of really good theories coming out of it. I would like to think that once
we all have the time to go back and watch all the episodes in which these
people have appeared (and any other episodes with references to these, by the
same writers, etc.) we will have a better mass of material to work with.
I’m going to start out with the premise that we have to take
Heller at his word on the list. (see: http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/05/06/mentalist-finale-season-6-red-john-list/) Red John is one of those suspects. Red John
is not Jane. The list is not a ruse.
There are no anagrams in the list. There is no one named Brett
Haffner-Stiles-Partridge who we haven’t seen yet but whose name is still there
just by chance. No, at least one of
these guys is Red John. Maybe more than
one. Yes. Maybe more than one. And I think we’ll know
who it is probably as soon as the first half of the next season, maybe in the
first few episodes. The rest will be some kind of pursuit when that character
falls off the grid.
The sheriff? He was in season one. Everyone, I expect, has
forgotten about him. He’s a good actor, loved him in the series 24. Have seen him as a character actor
in a lot of stuff I can’t recall. One of those faces. Reliable. Much like the
guy who played Timothy Carter whom I feel the same way about. But I doubt this
sheriff is Red John just because he’s so remote in my memory. Was he a dubious
character? Yes. He also got beaten by Jane in paper/rock/scissors repeatedly in
one of the best opening sequences of the series. Doubt it’s him.
Reede Whatsit. FBI guy. Why him? He’s a dolt, an emotionally
reactive FBI suit, not particularly memorable. Don’t know why he’s even on the
list. Is there any evidence that it could possibly be him besides Jane saying
he’s on the list? Remember when he and
Cho went at it? It’d be great if it were him just to see Cho knock him on the
hood of a car again.
That’s two suspects dismissed.
The only person on the list who is currently seriously
suspicious is Kirkland, who has murdered in cold blood and lied about it
(Lennon, in the hospital). He has expressed great interest in Jane and his
search for Red John, he was ret-conned conveniently into the series here in
season 5, as if he “had always been around.” He has contacts, is in a position
of power in his job as Homeland Security agent, has agents under him who do his
bidding seemingly without the need to report to anyone else (evidenced by their
shrugging off when he says he’ll “take care of it” once they supply him with
the photos of Jane’s office.) He fits the physical profile given by Harker. He
has a soft voice. He seems interested in approaching Lisbon at an angle to get
at Jane. He has physically shaken hands with Jane. He was very interested in
Lorelei Martins’ capture. He states (as was pointed out on this site) that he
“grew up in America” suggesting he moved a lot, suggesting a possible
connection to carnivals (though really this is unlikely).
But. He is hardly charming. He can barely hold a normal
conversation with Lisbon. He shook hands with Jane, as many people have
noticed, while Lorelei was in jail. He doesn’t seem to have any connection with
Visualize (though he may, later.) Is this just poor continuity/scripting? Or is
this some kind of clue? If Kirkland is Red John no one should be surprised, but
in the same way no one should be surprised if it turns out Lisbon is in love
with Jane. It’s so obvious it’s too obvious. Surely we can expect a bit more
subtlety regarding the central mystery of the series? If it’s Kirkland, let’s
just know already and make chase.
Kirkland is also in league with Bertram. So there’s a
Bertram/Kirkland connection.
Haffner: He’s Visualize. He fits the profile of Harker. He
is a cop who tried to infiltrate the CBI but failed. I’ve mentioned my
disagreement with the possibility that he’s Red John in other places, but he
has admitted to being a Visualize member, which puts him and Stiles in the same
boat. While Haffner may not know everything about Stiles, Stiles definitely knows
everything about Haffner.
Red John has a Visualize connection. Meaning Stiles is
involved at least peripherally. If the series went into season 7 or 8, I could
see pursuit of Visualize as a further plot device. I wonder how that would sit
in LA, heartland of Scientology.
That leaves Partridge. But all the reasons against Partridge are seeming feeble--basically we need to know more about the guy.